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June 25, 2010

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Excellent post Darius. I have a story that you will find interesting.

I know of a conversative Adventist who developed semi-Arian ideas. They revolved around issues of the Son's begotten status.

He ended up converting to Eastern Orthodoxy. And one reason appears to be the Eastern Orthodox idea of the eternal generation of Son (which grows out of origen but is slightly different???).

Ironically, as far as I can see, his semi-arianism helped his move to a Eastern form of trinitarianism. Similiar language and ideas and problems and a solution that respects those problems. Although I think it is a solution bound and restricted to them as well.

Now he see's Adventisms Trinitarianism as deficient and even suggests we are not really trinitarian because we don't believe in the eternal generation of the Son - you can't please some people! (Though in my mind the Adventist view is a simple non-speculative Biblical model that doesn't claim too much).

Do you think we should utilise Eastern Orthodox ideas on trinity or would that creates another set of problems?

Thanks for your comment Anthony.
I am not surprised your friend found Eastern Orthodoxy appealing. He is not alone. I am aware of several Protestant leaders who in recent years were received into the Orthodox church for a variety of reasons, one being the generation of the Son.

I am in agreement with you that, however incomplete, the Adventist understanding of the Trinity is very close to what we find in the Bible. Incorporating the Orthodox trinitarian ideas could introduce an unwanted (philosophical) complexity to our understanding of God and complicate our soteriology and eschatology considerably - something we don't need at this point of earth's history.

Great post Darius! Reading it made me miss your class at the Seminary. I have Augustine's "The Trinity" on my shelf as well as a few others about the Trinity and this made me want to pick them up soon as well. Blessings!

Thank you for this post. I appreciated the connections it draws between theology, Christology, and soteriology.

One connection, however, that was not so clear to me was the connection between the "Alexandrian infatuation with Greek philosophy" and subordinationism. It could be argued that theological ruminations on "logos" has Scriptural roots, drawn from John 1, which itself has roots in the OT's reference to "sophia."

Furthermore, it seems to me that the crucial distinction between Arianism and subordinationism needs to be made more explicit . The central issue is not the time of Christ's creation, but if he was created or not. Even if Christ was created in the far distant past, this does not "for all practical purposes" make him eternal, or equal with God. Rather, it makes him a creature, i.e. Arianism, and this has disastrous consequences for soteriology.

The Alexandrians were not Arians. The language of "generation" should not be read as an analog to the language of creation, affirming Christ had a beginning in time. The issue of subordination is an issue dealing with the relationship of the members of the Trinity to each other, once their co-eternity is assumed. It assumes that Christ is not a creature, i.e. equal with God, but has a distinct role to play in relation to the Father.

Lastly, the nature of the Trinity is also distinct from the question of Jesus' nature, i.e. was he "fully human and fully divine" and what does this mean?

It seems to me that Adventism's struggles with developing and maintaining an orthodox view of soteriology stem from Arianism, not subordinationism, and this last question.

Dear Darius,

I read your above "Adventist Anti-trinitarianism And Alexandrian Theology" with interest. Though not a SDA, I found this bit of SDA history quite interesting. I have been following recent Christological developments in Adventism for the better part of a decade now. You called some of the Adventist anti-trinitarians (subordinationists) as "Fountanarians.” I know what fount means. Specifically, which SDA anti-trinitarian subordinationists refer to themselves as "Fountanarians?" I would be interested in knowing. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Richard Rocky Maraccini

Thanks for your comment Richard. I came across the term "fountarianism" some years ago while researching a small group of Australian Adventist anti-Trinitarians. Here's a quote from their confession: "I believe that God the Father is the great original life source or fountain from whom all things flow. Therefore my use of the term fountarian to identify myself."
Darius

I see a quote by Uriah Smith changing his view that Christ was created to more begotten, was not included. Also, where can a quote by any other pioneer or Ellen White saying Christ was created be found?

One thing I find curious. How is it that most non-trinitarian or fountarians will only use the KJV which is decidedly from non-Alexandrian sources but traditional Antioch manuscripts while most trinitarians use the NIV and other bibles that are decidedly from the Alexandrian line of manuscripts. It would seem that what you are presenting is gnostic in nature. If what you say is true, should it not be the other way around.

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Memory, Meaning & Faith is a blog covering Christian history in light of contemporary issues.

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